El-P vs Sole

[Neruda II]

Actually, I hate debating in general cause it rarely comes to a point where anything changes. This is the first time I've had to debate anything with anyone on this site for a long time. I'm not going to pretend that I "obsessively pick apart" music, I don't, I enjoy it and use it everyday. Hell, Hip Hop damn near saved my life and gave me a gambit into other worlds. I think you're trying to argue things in a more abstract way when I'm saying things in a concrete manner. Even you can agree that the ability to go off beat exists.

[DalTonic]

i dont think sole and e-lp are talented thats the thing, jsut like i said i hate their flows i hate their delivery i hate their lyrics i hate their beat choice i hate the topics they rap about. even the wack mainstream MCs are more talented then them atleast they could ride beats and do the most basic of shit.

for this statement alone i will no longer consider any opinion of yours seriously.
not that you really mean it, because i doubt you have even listen to 20% of the EL-P stuff out there. You probely also have no idea how much ElP has produced as far as underground eastcoast goes.

ASIDE FROM PRODUCTION opinions...
for calling him not talented, it just shows you really have no clue about flowing. as some one who personally raps (recorded and performance), not type, actually exhales my words, ElP is incredibly talented. he really blows commercial rappers out the water in the difficulty of delivering his lines.
if you dont agree with the talent there you really dont know shit about flowing. mabye you listen to hiphop, but you dont understand shit about making it. bottem line. im sorry but thats strieght truth.

your just puffing your chest out over your keyboard, like most of the shit for brains kids on these boards. (start the flames you e-jock fags)
but please realize, just because you dont like a flow dosnt mean the rapper has no talent.
disagreing with me on this really makes you idiot... im sorry you feel stupid now skippy.

mabye some day your head will be pulled from your asshole and you can realize, things are good even if you dont personally enjoy them.

[Neruda II]

El P is decent at best.

Even guys who like El P can tell he he's not that good of a rapper. Hell, I'm a poet and I think most of the shit he says is wack. Fantastic Damage was meh, and I dont know why he has to fuck up ace rizzle's shit too.

[DalTonic]

El P is decent at best.

Even guys who like El P can tell he he's not that good of a rapper. Hell, I'm a poet and I think most of the shit he says is wack. Fantastic Damage was meh, and I dont know why he has to fuck up ace rizzle's shit too.

well it comes down to opinion, elp is most deff NOT a user friendly mc. ive heard fan dam probley 200 times and still miss some of his words because of speed/accent. i dont think that makes him a bad rapper, it just makes him harder to appreciate when most people are used to on point delivery emulated in alot of quality underground stuff.

i dont think he fucked up aes, he just showed him he dosnt have to JUST do the basslick blockhead tracks that made him so popular. this was largely reflected in aesops self produced bazookatooth, where he just kinda did what he thought sounded dope. some people liked it, alot more people used to aesop/blockhead sound didnt. that dosnt mean aesop 'fucked up' for sounding different, it just means that less people recognize the value in what he was doing.

with stuff like elps fandam or aes' bazooktooth, the large ratio of listners not really feeling it can often reflect the HUGE appreciation from fans that it really does click with.

another aspect alot of listners dont pickup on is material good on disc, and material good on set.

Float is by far the deepest, smoothest, most poetic aesop album ever made. its fucking golden in headphones, no doubt.
HOWEVER, in concert only a handfull of the tracks are really banger status.
Bazooka tooth on the otherhand, is fucking incredible live, much like fastcarsdangerfireknives, just about every track can get every kid to jump when aes is delivering it in person.

I listen to float in headphones, bazookatooth in my car.
I listen to blockhead instrumentals when writing, but ElP rap when im working.

if your still not feeling me you should go read the lyrics to float, then go read lyrics to bazzokatooth. youll see what im talking about.

[Neruda II]

I know just about every song on both albums word for word. I own both albums. I agree to some level. You have a point about aesop rock.

But I'm talking about el p not being as good a rapper as you guys claim he is. I really can't agree on you guys saying he has good flow, or that he's better than decent. When compared to heads like slug, GZA, and vast aire, he's really nothing to admire.

[Nick Bianco]

Actually, I hate debating in general cause it rarely comes to a point where anything changes. This is the first time I've had to debate anything with anyone on this site for a long time. I'm not going to pretend that I "obsessively pick apart" music, I don't, I enjoy it and use it everyday. Hell, Hip Hop damn near saved my life and gave me a gambit into other worlds. I think you're trying to argue things in a more abstract way when I'm saying things in a concrete manner. Even you can agree that the ability to go off beat exists.

Of course the ability to go off beat exists. But to say sole raps off beat is just incorrect. Yes its different, less smooth in some cases, and doesnt have a melodic appeal that rappers with "dope flow" have... but i dont feel that it is off beat. I feel like i understand exactly what your saying man, i just think its wrong. Im listening to sole right now, and its a song that i think you would say was "off beat"... but its not, it isnt pretty, but its on beat.

Put it this way. If I was mixing a track for sole, and had nothing but a beat and accapella... i would know exactly where to put it, and I would put it in the same place every time. It wouldnt be like mixing a 10 year olds first song, where he actually is spitting off beat because he has no idea what the rhythm section is even there for.. That is an extreme case to compare, but its what im trying to say.


"on beat" has less to do with flow and finnesse than you apparently think it does.

[N-Demik]

Even I think Sole flows off beat...

But it has alot more to do with melodic prowess than people who catch the snares with every rhyme. Unlike EL-P who goes the same route as Sole generally but doesn't really have the tone or delivery like Sole to make it sound as melodic. Although the rare Sole tracks like Year of the Sex Symbol or Martyr Theme Song...just overall sound more solid, melodically than alot of other stuff I've heard.

I'm surprised this thread is still going on...lol

[Stryk9]

meh.. el-p makes tight beats.



and some wack beats


but many tight beats.



the remix he did for hide ya face (ghostface/el-p collab) destroyed the original prefuse 73 beat so badly.

[Glasgow Kiss]

Where are all the El P haters now he is a god and Sole is still a worm.