El-P vs Sole

[Maven.]

This thread should officially be named the Mike Hosea against the world thread.
That being said, Mike, how come you don't call me no more baby?

Also, this beef is just wack. It seems like both emcees are out of their element completely trying to diss one another. I definitely prefer sole's abstract poetic stuff to this. If I had to choose a winner, it would be El-p just because of the phone conversation...that was really the only potent diss because it just showed sole as a bitch. At the same time, it had nothing to do with El-p's ability to diss...it just showed that he could splice a phone convo fairly well. All the suburbanite shit means nothing because upbringing has nothing to do with hiphop anymore.

[N-Demik]

Make love with me instead Patrick

[Raptor Jesus]

why are you bitching about personal attacks when you stepped onto this thread and said both sole and elp are shitty mcs.

you just look like a fucking idiot for even saying that shit. you dont have to personally enjoy some ones flow to understand they are skilled. I dont particulary enjoy listening to Supernat, Jurassic5, Dialated Peoples, Swollen Members ect in my free time. That dosnt mean they arnt incredibly talented MCs.

Um, the ability to flow on beat is a part of being skilled as an Emcee.

[Atti]

I like guys like Sole and Alias, basically Anticon style artists, for what they say. It's got a lot of depth to it, regardless of the flow. With mainstream, you get artists who just talk about the ghetto and 'gangstah this, money over dur' and don't have a lot of meter or flow.. and I just can't handle it. Because the words are just so blank, and valueless. But it's probally more about my own background I can't app. that *shrug* More talented Sole-esk "nerd"-hop artists are like Slug and Sage. They are legitamitly talented artists, on that more emotional note. But no, Sole isn't so much a great emcee as he is a spoken word poet, or poet in general.. that's why I enjoy his work, and that's why it seemed off that he would involved him self in a beef on wax. That was just stupid.

[Nick Bianco]

Um, the ability to flow on beat is a part of being skilled as an Emcee.

Brother Ali has a line like...
"3 million rappers use flow to stretch words over beats// and 2 million rappers are sharing the same three"

Point being, just because its not the same as everything else you have heard, does not mean its off beat. Its just on the beat differently.

[Neruda II]

No, you're either ON the beat, or OFF the beat.

There are artists that can do a deep metaphor type style much better than sole and el-p. I wouldn't call these guys "talented rappers" in a million years. They make better spokenword artists than rappers. Great flow=pun, biggie, rakim, brother ali, monch. Don't try to make it seem like its in opinion cause its fact, look up the definition of flow and you'll see that these guys aren't it.

[Nick Bianco]

I wouldn't call these guys "talented rappers" in a million years.

Your right. And sole wouldnt ever claim "rapper" seriously in a million years.

But as far as you disagreeing with my last post, and saying "no your either on beat or off beat" you are just ignorant to music. Yes that is a true statement, but not really relavent to what i said. Yes you are either on beat or off beat, ive heard thousands of netcees flowing off beat, but sole... is on beat when he flows.. its just different than the simple 'hit every snare with a rhyme' style you are used to hearing. But it IS on beat. Musically you cannot argue that, if your speaking of tempo and rhythm and things like that.

[Nick Bianco]

Don't try to make it seem like its in opinion cause its fact, look up the definition of flow and you'll see that these guys aren't it.

You must not have been talking to me cuz i never tried to make it seem like an opinion....

Yes, look up the definition of flow. Flow isnt always the same... flow doesnt always have to be 'smooth' and 'never changing'.

[Nick Bianco]

not all flow sounds good. Just because it doesnt sound good in your OPINION... doesnt make it off beat. That is so off base.

[Neruda II]

I'm not saying it has to be smooth or stagnant. Monch is known for having dope flow and his style constantly changes, its dynamic and raw. BUT HE IS ON BEAT AND ACTUALLY HAS GOOD MIC PRESENCE.

Even young jeezy has better swagger/flow than sole. (coming from a guy who despises jeezy)

Sage>Sole
Slug>sole
fucking aesop rock>sole

[Nick Bianco]

I'm not saying it has to be smooth or stagnant. Monch is known for having dope flow and his style constantly changes, its dynamic and raw. BUT HE IS ON BEAT AND ACTUALLY HAS GOOD MIC PRESENCE.

Even young jeezy has better swagger/flow than sole. (coming from a guy who despises jeezy)

Sage>Sole
Slug>sole
fucking aesop rock>sole

of course certain people are commonly believed to have better flows than others by the masses... but popular consensus isnt always right, in fact, it almost is always seems to be way off base. Popular opinion tells me i need to have 24 inch rims on my car to be cool or 'right'... but, not being ignorant, and having a common sense tells me that my hub caps are just fine...

point? Whats popular is not always whats right.... and this is a classic example of it..

i understand what your trying to say, and i would agree.. I to hate jeezeys music, and would say his flow would be more likeable and easy to accept by the masses. but in my opinion... sage francis and yes, even soles flows are BETTER. Just because they do not attempt to sound like what our generation has been programmed to believe is "good" or "right" or "normal" doesnt make them any worse, just more creative.

[Neruda II]

So by your own logic, if I start rapping like a retard and piss on a mic, I can argue that it's better because I'm being "creative"?

WOW I DIDNT KNOW SKILLS DIDNT APPLY TO BEING GOOD AT SOMETHING.

Now when I lose at everything, I'll just claim I was being more creative.

[Nick Bianco]

No, im trying to point out to you that what is different from the 'most popular' isnt always worse.

You took what I said on a specific topic and applied it to everything in life, it doesnt work like that.

No, i am not saying that by rapping like a retard and pissing on the mic you are just being "more creative". I'm saying that because you find different pathways and experiment with how to stretch your words over beats than what pop culture would tell us is "good and right"... doesnt mean your not as good. I'm saying that in this case, as well as many others, pop culture is in fact.. wrong.

And.. you saying sole is off beat when he spits is also wrong. On beat is something that goes far beyond rap lyrics and flow man, but anyone who knows music can tell when something is on beat or not. And sure in soles case, his flow doesnt have the same mass appeal as say... 50 cent. But it is still... on... beat..

[Neruda II]

Ok, first of all, I'm not a brainwashed zombie when it comes to music. I don't even watch tv, or listen to the radio. You don't know me so don't try to put me into that category. I agree to some degree, my taste in rap(and music in general) is pretty far and wide. I like rappers ranging from sage, MF DOOM, cage, eyedea, Quasimoto, to Kool G Rap, Nas, Jay Z, Lil Wayne, and T.I. When it comes to music, my ear is pretty open.

However, this isn't just me speaking from what everyone else says, this is me speaking through what knowledge and understanding is saying is right. Some emcees have BETTER flows than other. Its a fact. Just because you like something more, doesn't mean that its better. I could like N'sync more than the Beatles but that doesn't mean that they're N'sync are better. I know music, hosea knows music, even the musicians on this board will tell you that SOLE IS OFF BEAT. I'm not argueing his creativity, but its a fact that he is off beat on most of his songs, even his own fans have admitted this. I could give a fuck less about what is popular. Sorry man, if you think you're bringing some new revolutionary way of thinking to this board, you're wrong. I stopped listening to what everyone else said is good when I was a kid.

[Nick Bianco]

Some emcees have BETTER flows than other. Its a fact. Just because you like something more, doesn't mean that its better.

To me, the first sentence in the above quote, completely contradicts the second.

I think when you and i say "on beat" we are just coming from two different places. Im coming from music class and years of obsessively picking apart different kinds of music. And your coming from somewhere else.. [i wont pretend to know]

Basically bro, i think i know what you are trying to say, and actually i think it ends up coming down to a difference in opinion.

I'm headed out for a while... peace to a respectful debate. I'm down to continue if you still feel you have valid points to get across, it'll just be a while before I respond.